Re: Horror With A Message

Black Sunlite wrote:
stianchrister wrote:

Night of the Living Dead and Dawn of the Dead are both biting social commentaries. You often don't spot it until later, but the messages in those films are really strong. The racist theme in Night of the Living Dead, the consumer society in Dawn of the Dead... Those are really powerful. Shivers is about sexual liberation, and is a pretty good film too. In more recent examples, Hostel deals with the increasingly hostile world that Americans live in. I think that film would've been even greater if they explored that theme, how Americans are becoming less and less popular abroad, but they probably just wanted to make a torture porn movie.

All the best horror films have some kind of moral theme they explore, and that's a big problem with horror films in the post-slasher era, because they've been drained of theme. It has gone from a thematic statement and exploring our fears on a psychological level to a "gore machine".

Well said.

azathoth wrote:

^^^
You just spelled out a whole lot of my problems I have with 'mainstream' horror nowadays- just 'shiny' gore with no background.

We have a Movie Night where we will watch a movie(s) while chatting online.  We did "Dawn of the Dead" one night, and "Legend of Hell House" another night, and the discussions was mostly about the background and atmosphere of the films.

(Yes, this did include a shameless plug.  big_smile  )

Also well said...LOL, and honesty on the promotion too.

I may be annoying about pimping my Movie Nights, but I'm honest!  lol

Re: Horror With A Message

Aliens is one of my favourite horror films.

For this film Cameron drew inspiration from the Vietnam war, a situation in which a technologically superior force was defeated by a hostile foreign environment.In the story of Aliens the Colonial Marines were hired to protect the Weyland-Yutani Corporation facility, corresponding to the belief that corporate interests were one of the factors that led to American troops being sent to South Vietnam. In the film however it seems to me they think there mission aim was to locate and protect the missing families. We learn the true intention of why they were sent there from company man, Burke who wants samples of face-huggers and is prepared to risk lives to protect the facility (he protests about nuking it ). If troops therefore were sent to vietnam for corporate interests then american soldiers were deceived (They thought it was to fight communism and protect south vietnam ). It may also refer to the wider deception and propaganda perpetuated by the government against the american population during this period. The attitude of the Marines was influenced by the Vietnam War; they are portrayed as cocky and confident of a decisive victory, but when they find themselves facing a less technologically advanced but more determined, cunning force the outcome is not what they expect.

Last edited by Vasquez (2011-08-12 07:56:22)

Re: Horror With A Message

Interesting analysis on 'Aliens.'  I'm not sure about the technology disparities, as the Viet Cong had similar weapons, and the Aliens were biologically almost equal with the marines.  I do see the socio-economic similarities, as Vietnam draftees could care less about any corporate interests, and the 'Aliens' marines were there to save the people of the colony, as opposed to the prick Burke.

Very nice, never thought of it that way.

Re: Horror With A Message

Thank you for compliments azathoth but you can not really say the vietcong had similar weapons than to the American army. The american army had B- 52 bombers, helicopters, jets, tanks and better firearms e.g M-16 compared to AK - 47 which is far less accurate. Vietnam suffered huge casualties as a result compared to the american army

Last edited by Vasquez (2011-08-12 08:03:47)

Re: Horror With A Message

I dont think the xenomorphs were biologically the same as the marines either, ill look into that, maybe they were.

Last edited by Vasquez (2011-08-12 08:07:55)

Re: Horror With A Message

Vasquez wrote:

Thank you for compliments azathoth but you can not really say the vietcong had similar weapons than to the American army. The american army had B- 52 bombers, helicopters, jets, tanks and better firearms e.g M-16 compared to AK - 47 which is far less accurate. Vietnam suffered huge casualties as a result compared to the american army

Very true.  I was just thinking just in terms of in-field fighting, like the 'Alien' marines in the tunnels/rooms with aliens.  When you have an assault rifle, just point in the general direction and hope for the best, really.  hmm

War just sucks.

Re: Horror With A Message

I'm liking this Vasquez guy/gal  (sorry, don't know).  Movie & history knowledge, comparison technique, analysis.  Yep.  And yes, I'm being serious.

Re: Horror With A Message

Thank you azathoth. I just had another thought. Maybe you are correct about the marines being the same as aliens, i mean napalm is probably the most horrifying weapon created for military purposes and the closest real weapon to acid blood you'll probably ever get. Oh and i am a guy i just like vasquez as a character is all.

Last edited by Vasquez (2011-08-12 09:40:05)

Re: Horror With A Message

The acid blood is stolen straight out of David Cronenberg's Shivers. Whether Cronenberg thought of it that way is a different story, but the monsters from the Alien series are heavily based on the parasite from Cronenberg's Shivers. Dan O'Bannon admitted that himself.

Re: Horror With A Message

Vasquez wrote:

Aliens is one of my favourite horror films.

For this film Cameron drew inspiration from the Vietnam war, a situation in which a technologically superior force was defeated by a hostile foreign environment.In the story of Aliens the Colonial Marines were hired to protect the Weyland-Yutani Corporation facility, corresponding to the belief that corporate interests were one of the factors that led to American troops being sent to South Vietnam. In the film however it seems to me they think there mission aim was to locate and protect the missing families. We learn the true intention of why they were sent there from company man, Burke who wants samples of face-huggers and is prepared to risk lives to protect the facility (he protests about nuking it ). If troops therefore were sent to vietnam for corporate interests then american soldiers were deceived (They thought it was to fight communism and protect south vietnam ). It may also refer to the wider deception and propaganda perpetuated by the government against the american population during this period. The attitude of the Marines was influenced by the Vietnam War; they are portrayed as cocky and confident of a decisive victory, but when they find themselves facing a less technologically advanced but more determined, cunning force the outcome is not what they expect.

Deep analysis, really interesting.

azathoth wrote:

Interesting analysis on 'Aliens.'  I'm not sure about the technology disparities, as the Viet Cong had similar weapons, and the Aliens were biologically almost equal with the marines.  I do see the socio-economic similarities, as Vietnam draftees could care less about any corporate interests, and the 'Aliens' marines were there to save the people of the colony, as opposed to the prick Burke.

Very nice, never thought of it that way.

But the deceptive motivation that is normally given for a war is the point.  Soldiers are usually told whatever it takes to get the job done and are suped-up on symbolic propaganda and a twisted, "we’re so great, let’s go around and kick some ass to prove it", might is always right attitude.  Do you actually think that scumbag Burke was the only one in the corporation that knew about the alien threat and kept quiet about it.  Hell, you can bet the house the whole board knew (and throw in some of the office lackeys too...what’s that old line by regular Nazi soldiers, ”hey, I was just following orders”).  That’s how the game is usually played and Ripley knew it.  That’s why she didn’t want anything to do with the operation at first.  However, she later gave in in hopes of really helping the people in the colony and for her own personal closure about the situation pertaining to her past.  The Vietnam War, The Grenader Invasion, The Panama Invasion, The Gulf War, The Iraq Invasion and on and on...hell, you can even add Waco to the list too.  The point is wars are routinely drench in lies.

Wow Vasquez, you enlighten me to a new outlook on the movie.

Re: Horror With A Message

Vasquez wrote:

Aliens is one of my favourite horror films.

For this film Cameron drew inspiration from the Vietnam war, a situation in which a technologically superior force was defeated by a hostile foreign environment.In the story of Aliens the Colonial Marines were hired to protect the Weyland-Yutani Corporation facility, corresponding to the belief that corporate interests were one of the factors that led to American troops being sent to South Vietnam. In the film however it seems to me they think there mission aim was to locate and protect the missing families. We learn the true intention of why they were sent there from company man, Burke who wants samples of face-huggers and is prepared to risk lives to protect the facility (he protests about nuking it ). If troops therefore were sent to vietnam for corporate interests then american soldiers were deceived (They thought it was to fight communism and protect south vietnam ). It may also refer to the wider deception and propaganda perpetuated by the government against the american population during this period. The attitude of the Marines was influenced by the Vietnam War; they are portrayed as cocky and confident of a decisive victory, but when they find themselves facing a less technologically advanced but more determined, cunning force the outcome is not what they expect.

Deep analysis, really interesting.

azathoth wrote:

Interesting analysis on 'Aliens.'  I'm not sure about the technology disparities, as the Viet Cong had similar weapons, and the Aliens were biologically almost equal with the marines.  I do see the socio-economic similarities, as Vietnam draftees could care less about any corporate interests, and the 'Aliens' marines were there to save the people of the colony, as opposed to the prick Burke.

Very nice, never thought of it that way.

But the deceptive motivation that is normally given for a war is the point.  Soldiers are usually told whatever it takes to get the job done and are suped-up on symbolic propaganda and a twisted, "we’re so great, let’s go around and kick some ass to prove it", might is always right attitude.  Do you actually think that scumbag Burke was the only one in the corporation that knew about the alien threat and kept quiet about it.  Hell, you can bet the house the whole boardroom known about it (and throw in some of the office lackeys too...what’s that old line by regular Nazi soldiers, "hey, I was just following orders").  That’s how the game is usually played and Ripley knew it.  That’s why she didn’t want anything to do with the operation at first.  However, she later gave in in hopes of really helping the people in the colony and for her own personal closure about the situation pertaining to her past.  The Vietnam War, The Grenader Invasion, The Panama Invasion, The Gulf War, The Iraq Invasion and on and on...hell, you can even add Waco to the list too.  The point is wars are routinely drench in lies.

Wow Vasquez, you enlighten me to a new outlook on that movie.

Re: Horror With A Message

Black Sunlite wrote:

Soldiers are usually told whatever it takes to get the job done and are suped-up on symbolic propaganda and a twisted, "we’re so great, let’s go around and kick some ass to prove it", might is always right attitude.

Not so. 

<--- ex-infantryman and combat vet.

Soldiers being fascist, oppressive, blindly obedient thugs is a gross and unfair misconception -- but hey, whatever works for the movie, right?

Re: Horror With A Message

Lon is the most lovable thug on these boards!

Sunlite- the reason I singled out Burke was that he was the only company man on-station.  Of course all management knew something was wrong.

Re: Horror With A Message

stianchrister wrote:

The acid blood is stolen straight out of David Cronenberg's Shivers. Whether Cronenberg thought of it that way is a different story, but the monsters from the Alien series are heavily based on the parasite from Cronenberg's Shivers. Dan O'Bannon admitted that himself.

I was only joking about the acid blood, just thought napalm was the closest thing we have created in reality to the effect acid blood would have on human skin. I mean if you think about how a xenomorph ,dripping with acid and attacking a marine would turn out. They would get acid all over them.

Last edited by Vasquez (2011-08-12 15:08:00)

Re: Horror With A Message

Soldiers being fascist, oppressive, blindly obedient thugs is a gross and unfair misconception -- but hey, whatever works for the movie, right?

I think in this movie it makes the point that the cowardly politicians and corporate heads are the fascists. Certainly in this movie i think the marines were all very likeable characters. You have to admit though there have unbelievable atrocities committed by foot-soldiers of various armies over many decades.
Just watch City of Life and Death.

Last edited by Vasquez (2011-08-12 15:02:16)

Re: Horror With A Message

American werewolf in London reminds me of the story The Puppy that lost his way.

So, you see, the puppy was like industry. In that, they were both lost in the woods. And nobody, especially the little boy - "society" - knew where to find 'em. Except that the puppy was a dog. But the industry, my friends, that was a revolution.

Re: Horror With A Message

You guys gotta watch City of Life and Death as i have mentioned the Mainstream Movie Thread. It explores very similar themes we have brought up here and it is a very powerful film

Re: Horror With A Message

I just watched a movie that many might not think of as "horror", probably more like "a psychological thriller".  Either way, it was deep.  A real heart-tugger called "IN HER SKIN".

It's based on a true story that took place in Australia.  Basically its about two girls that grew up next door to each other, one being a few years older.  The older one was over weight, somewhat unattractive and had a serious self-esteem problem.  The younger one was beautiful, a dancer, had the handsome boyfriend, the whole nine yards.  Well, The older was filled with so much self-hatred and so jealous of the girl next door that she ended up killer her and the whole move revolved around that. 

I won't go into details about the story itself.  I'll just say it was deep and brilliant how the film was made.  The opening with the music of the John Butler Trio, "What You Want", playing as the soundtrack and the film going along the countryside up to that hill where the older girl is standing on the hilltop with her arms stretched out to the sky with the bright morning sunlight shining behind her.  Then after you watch the whole movie and get to the end, the film flashes back to the opening scene where you get the full meaning of that whole thing and you're like...well, like I said, its a real heart-tugger.  I just wanted to lay that out, I didn't meant to get all soft.  I gotta also say that I can't help feeling sorry for not only what tragically happen to the young girl but, now this is weird, for the older psycho too (see, I told you it was weird). 

Still, one of things that impact me was how the film also goes along the lines of movies like "AMDEUS" and "THE HOUSE OF MIRTH".  Meaning, you'll be surprise who hates your guts and you don't know it.

Also, there's something else I kept thinking after it got to the murder scene.  Now they didn't seem like the best of friends (in other words, hang-out buddies) but, for what is shown, the young girl was never appeared to ever treat the older one bad or dis her or anything.  The point I'm getting at is that it's really f***ed up that the older girl felt such a need to kill her but never did anything to the two giggling-ass snake b*tches she worked with in her offices.  Oh well, that's how it goes sometimes.

Anyway, when you get a chance, check out the movie.  It's really good.

Last edited by Black Sunlite (2011-09-05 23:12:21)

Re: Horror With A Message

I think I will check that one out

Re: Horror With A Message

I ordered it from Flix earlier after reading the Post.

Sunlite - Hope it's good...you got a bunch of our hopes up.  smile

Last edited by Ghostseeker (2011-09-06 01:10:41)

Re: Horror With A Message

[teaser] Here's the opening segment right here on YouTube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1KRwe0z … re=related

(you'll have to turn the sound up a little, the volume is kinda low)

Re: Horror With A Message

swollenguy wrote:

American werewolf in London reminds me of the story The Puppy that lost his way.

So, you see, the puppy was like industry. In that, they were both lost in the woods. And nobody, especially the little boy - "society" - knew where to find 'em. Except that the puppy was a dog. But the industry, my friends, that was a revolution.

Knibb High football rules!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Horror With A Message

Texas Chainsaw Massacre
Halloween

but mainly after reading 'Men, Women, and Chain Saws: Gender in the Modern Horror Film' by Carol J Clover.. haha.

apart from that, most 70s horror has an intellectual impact on me. mainly in regards to how the films reflect the changing social attitudes of the time and the relaxing of censorship laws etc... But i guess that's mostly extratextual thinking..

Re: Horror With A Message

MistressOf Horror wrote:

I think I will check that one out

Ghostseeker wrote:

I ordered it from Flix earlier after reading the Post.

Sunlite - Hope it's good...you got a bunch of our hopes up.  smile

Alright, so what do y'all think of it?

Re: Horror With A Message

Ms45 wrote:

but mainly after reading 'Men, Women, and Chain Saws: Gender in the Modern Horror Film' by Carol J Clover.. haha.

Heh.  I tried reading that but was quickly turned off by its token psychoanalysis.  I've never read a book written by someone who likes to hear herself talk (or read herself write) as much as Clover apparently does. hmm