Topic: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

Firstly, I love these films. The first was genuinely scary and still holds up and the fun dark comedy was brilliant. However, I think I would have liked Freddy more (because lets face it, he is the reason we watch them) if he was innocent in life and was wrongly accused of the crimes against children, his revenge would have felt more justified and I would have felt less guilty about enjoying the death scenes. I had this problem with Hard Candy too. I am forced to like a criminal and not just a robber like in From Dusk Til Dawn or a hilarious psychotic clown like in Zombies firefly family films but in NOES and Hard Candy I'm made to like peodofiles and child killers and I can't quite handle that. So much so I was stripped down by some pillock on IMDB when I shared these thoughts about both films. Am I the only one who sees this as a problem or am I being a tit and ready way way too much into it? Maybe those on IMDB are right and I'm as much as a monster as them because I like them more than I should. (Btw I felt the need for a bath when I realized I'd been routing for a peodofile in Hard Candy and still feel kinda grubby for liking the Fireflys)

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

Hehehe I love your way with words Ultra, no you're not a tit lol.

I never routed for the paedophile guy in Hard Candy, I really wanted Juno (can't remember her real name) to castrate the bastard. But I know what you mean about Freddy. I do love the kills but it would have been better if he was avenging his reputation and he never did any of those things. Although, it adds to the evilness of his character, so maybe it wouldn't be the same without that backstory.

I don't usually feel guilty or weird for liking the kill scenes in films, but then slashers are my favourite sub-genre and the best thing about them is the inventive kills, and I do enjoy seeing the different ways they come up with of killing people. If that makes me  a weirdo, then so be it. Most people I've encountered on the IMDB boards are superior arseholes who just want to come off as more intelligent than you, or better because they've seen more films, even though they probably haven't, so I try not to engage with them at all! You're certainly not a monster for liking them though, and even if you are, I'm right there with ya tongue

Last edited by HorrorQueen17 (2012-06-21 16:14:52)

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

That is the brilliance of the genre and great filmmakers such as Craven, and many others. This is nothing new, remember how they make you feel sad for Frankensteins monster? Then he throws the girl into the lake lol. I think its normal to have certain feelings and thoughts as long as ya don't act on them.

Also I believe in the ANOES remake they do make it out that Freddy was innocent, so maybe that's the one for you? ;-)

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

HorrorQueen17 wrote:

Hehehe I love your way with words Ultra, no you're not a tit lol.

I never routed for the paedophile guy in Hard Candy, I really wanted Juno (can't remember her real name) to castrate the bastard. But I know what you mean about Freddy. I do love the kills but it would have been better if he was avenging his reputation and he never did any of those things. Although, it adds to the evilness of his character, so maybe it wouldn't be the same without that backstory.

I don't usually feel guilty or weird for liking the kill scenes in films, but then slashers are my favourite sub-genre and the best thing about them is the inventive kills, and I do enjoy seeing the different ways they come up with of killing people. If that makes me  a weirdo, then so be it. Most people I've encountered on the IMDB boards are superior arseholes who just want to come off as more intelligent than you, or better because they've seen more films, even though they probably haven't, so I try not to engage with them at all! You're certainly not a monster for liking them though, and even if you are, I'm right there with ya tongue

Haha, my britishness shines through sometimes. You're in real trouble when I start babbling in welsh lingo. I'm kinda conflicted about it tbh. I do enjoy it for what it is which is a fun twisted revenge story with some epic death scenes and I don't feel guilt as such for liking some death scenes. There's nothing more enjoyable than watching teens get carved up for their sins. If that makes me sick or depraved then so be it. The problem with Hard Candy was it could go either way. You either side with the girl who's getting some twisted justice for a mans crimes against children or you are fooled into thinking Jeff is innocent and hating Hayley but to be honest, she didn't come across as a likable girl anyway, I've seen plenty of people who agree with me. I got called a peodofile by one person on the delightful IMDB for not wanting Jeff to suffer for 50% of the film, the other 50% I wanted Hayley to torture I saw the devil style. I think it would have just been interesting if the villain turned out to be the victim sometimes. We've seen the victim become the villain like in I saw the devil and The Vengeance Trilogy. Maaybe I really should just stop reading into it. I now fully hate my film studies tutor for teaching me to question EVERYTHING!

5

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

^^no in the ANOES remake they make it out clearer than ever that he is a pedophile they find the pictures he has taken and stuff, in the original series they more or less just hint at it, that is one of the many reasons I hate the remake

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

JJ wrote:

^^no in the ANOES remake they make it out clearer than ever that he is a pedophile they find the pictures he has taken and stuff, in the original series they more or less just hint at it, that is one of the many reasons I hate the remake

I'm still on the fence about the remake. I don't really remember it that well other than it had the kid from Haunting in Connecticut in it who I quite liked. I tried having this conversation with Mr UV but he usually nods and says "so ... car parts..."

7

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

^haha I just thought the story was terrible, the cgi was horrid, there was no attempt to keep it entertaining or scary. I saw it once in theatres and almost fell asleep, and every time I have tried to watch it since then I fall asleep because I find it so horrible

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

ChainSaW80 wrote:

That is the brilliance of the genre and great filmmakers such as Craven, and many others. This is nothing new, remember how they make you feel sad for Frankensteins monster? Then he throws the girl into the lake lol. I think its normal to have certain feelings and thoughts as long as ya don't act on them.

Also I believe in the ANOES remake they do make it out that Freddy was innocent, so maybe that's the one for you? ;-)

I thought in the remake they made it painfully clear he was hurting those children. maybe I wasnt watching close enough though

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

I agree. I love NOES its my favorite series (even though the later ones got silly) I keep watching them. In those to me they dont give enough back story so you feel more for freddy that he has to get revenge because he was wrongfully killed (even though we know what he did) we want him to get revenge. In Hard Candy i wanted that bastard castrated he deserved it for what he did. I wanted him to suffer Ellen Page played that role very well. But I still wanted him dead. Freddy on the other hand...I dont know...I want him to make those people suffer. Maybe I am the sick one?

Edit:Just had the conversation with my mom she says I am the sick one because she didnt want Freddy to win. Hum nothing new lol

Last edited by revengebiteme (2012-06-21 16:49:56)

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

revengebiteme wrote:
ChainSaW80 wrote:

That is the brilliance of the genre and great filmmakers such as Craven, and many others. This is nothing new, remember how they make you feel sad for Frankensteins monster? Then he throws the girl into the lake lol. I think its normal to have certain feelings and thoughts as long as ya don't act on them.

Also I believe in the ANOES remake they do make it out that Freddy was innocent, so maybe that's the one for you? ;-)

I thought in the remake they made it painfully clear he was hurting those children. maybe I wasnt watching close enough though

I think they wanted to make it more comfortable for viewers. Like too comfortable. Which is against the horror rules! I don't want to feel at complete ease. It's like they wanted to grab a bigger audience by lulling you into security. The kills were fun though.

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

revengebiteme wrote:

I agree. I love NOES its my favorite series (even though the later ones got silly) I keep watching them. In those to me they dont give enough back story so you feel more for freddy that he has to get revenge because he was wrongfully killed (even though we know what he did) we want him to get revenge. In Hard Candy i wanted that bastard castrated he deserved it for what he did. I wanted him to suffer Ellen Page played that role very well. But I still wanted him dead. Freddy on the other hand...I dont know...I want him to make those people suffer. Maybe I am the sick one?

Edit:Just had the conversation with my mom she says I am the sick one because she didnt want Freddy to win. Hum nothing new lol

I think I must have just missed the point with Hard Candy but this is the only film where Ellen Page was just so unlikable. I didn't feel for her at all. She just came off as petty sometimes. Yeah I did understand she wanted a monster to suffer and to feel as violated as his victims. Hard Candy was just not my thing maybe.

NOES was funny, from the first to the last it is hillarious. Even the later ones are brilliant because they are funny. It doesn't take itself seriously and I can sit back, watch it and enjoy it rather than worry. I do like to get serious occasionally. I have to tackle Martyrs soon but I like to have fun. My biggest issue at the moment is "torture porn" WTF IS THAT ?

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

UltraViolence wrote:
revengebiteme wrote:

I agree. I love NOES its my favorite series (even though the later ones got silly) I keep watching them. In those to me they dont give enough back story so you feel more for freddy that he has to get revenge because he was wrongfully killed (even though we know what he did) we want him to get revenge. In Hard Candy i wanted that bastard castrated he deserved it for what he did. I wanted him to suffer Ellen Page played that role very well. But I still wanted him dead. Freddy on the other hand...I dont know...I want him to make those people suffer. Maybe I am the sick one?

Edit:Just had the conversation with my mom she says I am the sick one because she didnt want Freddy to win. Hum nothing new lol

I think I must have just missed the point with Hard Candy but this is the only film where Ellen Page was just so unlikable. I didn't feel for her at all. She just came off as petty sometimes. Yeah I did understand she wanted a monster to suffer and to feel as violated as his victims. Hard Candy was just not my thing maybe.

NOES was funny, from the first to the last it is hillarious. Even the later ones are brilliant because they are funny. It doesn't take itself seriously and I can sit back, watch it and enjoy it rather than worry. I do like to get serious occasionally. I have to tackle Martyrs soon but I like to have fun. My biggest issue at the moment is "torture porn" WTF IS THAT ?

My mom has a problem with Torture porn I personally love it well I love Hostel part 2 . Not all torture porn is good but some is hot. I love the movie Pathology (not sure if it is in that genre though so if someone knows let me know??)  the Saw series would be considered in there genre. Like I said some is good some is not

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

revengebiteme wrote:

My mom has a problem with Torture porn I personally love it well I love Hostel part 2 . Not all torture porn is good but some is hot. I love the movie Pathology (not sure if it is in that genre though so if someone knows let me know??)  the Saw series would be considered in there genre. Like I said some is good some is not

I liked Hostel 2 as well, but not because of the torture. I liked the character situations in this one, the two guys, and the hottie luring in female victims. I don't mind torture porn, but find that when it lacks interesting and charismatic characters, as was the case with Frontiers and High Tension, it's just plain boring. Oddly enough... violence is more interesting, alluring and desirable when it's inflicted upon or perpetrated by characters that we can relate to or are attracted to. In horror films as with other films the only thing that matters in the end is well-written characters. Everything else is just window dressing.

Last edited by Bunshinsaba (2012-06-21 17:56:24)

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

I don't think the pedophile thing was played up enough in the remake.  From the pictures and all, looks like he just idolized the kids not like....did stuff with them Jerry Sandusky style.  Either way it was creepy.

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

revengebiteme wrote:
ChainSaW80 wrote:

That is the brilliance of the genre and great filmmakers such as Craven, and many others. This is nothing new, remember how they make you feel sad for Frankensteins monster? Then he throws the girl into the lake lol. I think its normal to have certain feelings and thoughts as long as ya don't act on them.

Also I believe in the ANOES remake they do make it out that Freddy was innocent, so maybe that's the one for you? ;-)

I thought in the remake they made it painfully clear he was hurting those children. maybe I wasnt watching close enough though

Oh, maybe so. I was just remembering the scene where the parents chase him into the abandoned warehouse and set it ablaze and he seemed so sincere with cries of innocence...my bad. I didn't like the remake and don't remember much about it.

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

As for the Freddy issue, I agree with the original post; Freddy as a wrongly accused character would have been more interesting.

17

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

^^I would have enjoyed that more or at least if they stayed the way of the original where it is not prominent that he did it, it just seemed like a way to try and make the movie seem "creeper" and it just made me think of how much I wanted Freddie to die lol

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

I guess I am more old school when it comes to bad guys or villains in Horror movies.  I like my bad guys to be 100% evil!  I don't want to know if they came from an abusive family (Zombie's Halloween Remake) or if they were actually innocent.  That kind of ruins it for me actually.  And no that doesn't make me sick or twisted, just a Horror fan. 

As for Freddy, he is my favourite character of the big four (Leatherface, Freddy, Michael, Jason)  and I love that he is bad to the bone.  He is the bastard son of a rapist killer after all and I wouldn't want him any other way.  Really, when you think about it, the only "innocent" bad guy of the big four is Jason.  He was just a kid that drowned in the lake and then sought revenge over the death of his mother later. 

Also Dracula, Frankenstein, and The Mummy were all pure evil too!  Nothing wrong with that, that's why we love them!  They're Monsters! 

Frankly UV, it sounds like the people on IMDB were just being movie snobs.   The fact that you wanted to root for Freddy is because Robert Englund did such a great job bringing that character to life!  He is so deliciously evil, we can't help but like him.

And I have to agree with Chainsaw, the Remake of NOES was terrible.  The main reason I didn't like it was that they tried to explain too much!  That and the fact that it wasn't Robert Englund who played Freddy smile

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

Dirtygirl is right, I like my killers to be enigmas like Michael in first halloween.  Don't know why he's killing, he's just EVIL.  Love it!

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

Gardenofstone10 wrote:

Dirtygirl is right, I like my killers to be enigmas like Michael in first halloween.  Don't know why he's killing, he's just EVIL.  Love it!


Valid points for sure, and in many respects I feel the same. It's interesting to note that DirtyGirl cited Dracula, Frankenstein, and the Mummy; but not the Wolfman, which is an exception to her point and preference. We all got to know Larry Talbot quite well and still thoroughly enjoyed the rampages of the Wolfman, even with Abbott and Costello.  And then there's Jason... whose kinda in between. Nevertheless, the Zombie Halloween did have WAY TOO much Mike the kid stuff. Wholly stretch that running-time, Batman!!

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

For me, it can work both ways, Micheal Myers was evil and there was no reason for it, and that works for that film. Still, I enjoyed The Halloween remake and other films such as Maniac were the killer had reason or motive to kill. I think in real life it works both ways honestly, some people just snap while other monsters are made the way they are when their psyche is damaged. In other words, I don't really have a preference, whatever works is cool with me.

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD38tLG-bbs

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

Oh I like it the way it is. Freddy is my favourite too. I never liked halloween that much, Friday I haven't really seen much. I think I might have watched the first hour of the first years ago. I'm one of those people who likes to know why. This was purely a thought that popped into my head one day. Robert Englund made Freddy, there's no doubt about it Freddy maybe not be the most sympathetic of villains but he's definately the most likeable. I like films with likable villains but equally I love pure evil too.

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

I dunno.... if we're talking portrayals of frighteningly pure evil, I wouldn't even put Freddy in the Top 50. Robert Mitchum's psycho in Night of the Hunter, Kevin Spacey's in SEVEN, and Javier Bardem's in No Country For Old Men, John Jarratt's in Wolf Creek. Now they are pure evil.

Re: A problem I have with Nightmare on Elm Street...

John Jarratt scared the shit out of me. I will never go back packing in australia purely cause of that guy. The film itself was a letdown but the villain stopped it from being a complete disappointment.